docwebster | Repost from last year about this same time

Okay. You hate Christmas. We get the idea. Now would you kindly shut the fuck up and quit pissing on my parade, already? Geez. Take an Ex-Lax. From the sound of things, it'll improve your fucking mood.

Before anybody asks, NO this isn't directed at any one person. But I weary of nimrods who live by "misery is company" and insist on dragging down the moods of folks like me who DO enjoy the season.

So, in review, shut the fuck up or so help me Ghu I am going to rip your throat out and bugger you to death with the tonsil end.

(from another post, I give you this)

Christmas.

You know, I'm not by any means a stereotypical Christian. Not even close, it must be said. But I do get mightily annoyed when people don't treat it with as much respect as they would like for their religion, or lack thereof as the case may be. If you want respect, you give respect. Otherwise, kindly shut your fucking face. Hypocrisy doesn't wear well on anyone, least of all people who presumably have an intelligence quotient somewhat above that of a squashed gnat.

There is one extremely dear person whose journal shall remain nameless (because this person truly is very cool, but if they choose to react to this, it's not my place to say them nay) who had , in their journal, one of the most condescending things I've ever read. To wit, referring to Christ as "An imaginary friend". In other words, if you believe in Christ you're displaying the approximate maturity of a preschooler. Nice.

I reiterate: it's perfectly okay if you don't believe. It's perfectly okay if your religion of choice is worshipping a left handed Albanian dentist from Newark named Morty. But do *not* look down your nose at those who believe in Christ, simply because they believe in the brand that's been (arguably) number one on the metaphysical hit parade for the last couple millenia or so.

And don't come to me with "Well the Christian religion has been blahblahblahing the worshippers of blahblahblah for x number of years" (or any of the innumerable variations thereupon) argument. That's not the issue here. The issue is inherent hypocrisy. In short, knock it the hell off.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I'm personally sick and tired of neopagans trying to pull the whole 'it was our festival first then you took it away nyah nyah' thing.

I personally am one of those who suck the greasy doodah of the dark whatsit (as

batty_ will attest) but ffs, folks, Christmas is all about the Christian story, and that's its magic and its meaning. I really don't want to hear any more guff about some generic pseudo-Frazerian archetypal 'divine child' of whom Christ was just one example. If people want to celebrate a date, fine, let them. But the Christians are celebrating an event that they believe happened, which I personally take to be a bit more significant than just celebrating the shortest day of the year - as if more than a handful of us have any kind of a pastoral existence any more, in which the midwinter point could be said to be relevant.

I have a tree in my living room and there are little wooden ANGELS and SHEPHERDS on it, not elves or crystals or dragons or feathery Celtic first-menstruation-commemorating dream catchers. That's the way it should be, in my view.

As an anthropology text put it:

"This 'origins' bias privileging the original over subsequent meanings also works in reverse: when religions like Christianity take over an older practise and 'Christianize' it (Christmas trees, for example), the modern tendency is to see this as the retention of paganism with a veneer of Christianity, rather than as a transformative process in which old and new ideas interact to create a new and meaningful ritual with ties to the past."

- Karen Jolly, Athlone History of Magic

feathery Celtic first-menstruation-commemorating dream catchers

dear cav,
please get me one of these for christmas. thank you.

love
^b^

...and I've fallen out of my chair...

good think my computer chair mat is spikey side down.

Amen, so to speak.

(Just added you, btw. I took a curious glance at your userinfo and anybody that's interested in batty's ass is cool by me. Hee hee.)

Reciprocated. Anyone who can remove an appendix on a bar top is cool by me. :)

And I get to meet the Spider-man hisself at Capricon in a month. Wh00t!

Thank you so much, that is the most sense I've heard out of anyone in awhile.

I find your logic here rather interesting. You are irritated that the neopagens are "pulling that" yet you acknowledge that the origins are their religions and that Christians raped and pillaged them. And are irritated that they are voicing their irritation?? Are you upset that the Indians aren't happy about being slaughtered and lied to and forced to live on reservations? Just because one party is the *victor* doesn't make them right OR entitled it just makes them more ruthless and conniving.

The early Christians recognized the need to dispense with the other dominant indigenous religions and through that assimilation they had to make it an easy/acceptable transition for the people. So they centered all their holidays around the already known and accepted holidays keeping with that holiday's central theme/celebration.

The 'Christian Story' as you put it just happens to mirror the pagan story behind the feast of Saturnalia - which is allegorical one, not one that makes claims of event. The Christian take on the story has events that are totally unsubstantiated, didn't even occur in December (the date was 'chosen' by Pope Julius and isn't mentioned in the Bible) and is centered around a person who *may* have existed. It is interesting that the Bible is the ONLY document that outlines his life when born into a society of ravenous documentarians.

Justify your beliefs however it makes you feel better, but realize that the egocentric nature of your comments is a sin in your god's eyes.

Justify your beliefs however it makes you feel better, but realize that the egocentric nature of your comments is a sin in your god's eyes.

No it isn't. I'm a pagan.

I find that to be surprising to say the least. You sound awfully Christian.

Not in the least. I have spent the last ten years running one of my country's premier occult & pagan bookshops and frequently lecture on the local circuit.

One doesn't have to be Christian to find certain attitudes prevalent among neopagans annoying and ignorant, just as one could find fault with certain attitudes typical of Christians while being Christian oneself.

I can agree with that, totally. It's unattractive behavior no matter what your faith. I have studied a little about pagan beliefs and can say that I identify most with them (although I can't call myself pagan per se since I do not practice or keep up with it). I find that paganism (and some eastern religions) to hold the real solid core of the beliefs that Christians flaut but in a far more simplified and pure form, without all the trappings of guilt, pressure and overbearing judgement.

So I guess I have to apologize for being so off the mark about you ;)

(but I can't agree with calling the smothering of other religions holiday's being called a "new and meaningful ritual with ties to the past" although maybe that's because that's not at all how the general christian population would ever put it, or intended it)

Nice icon, by the way, if you don't mind me saying so. What's the tattoo?

Thanks, it's a revamped image from an old anticorset book that I changed to images of a character from a Micheal Manning book (vs. the harpies that it originally had).

Here (http://stardust23.diaryland.com/images/img_2489tattoo2.jpg) is a closer pic. it says 'a la mode, a la mort' which loosely means 'with fashion, with death'

Repost from last year about this same time

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

I'm not a neopagan, mind you, but...

Re: I'm not a neopagan, mind you, but...

Re: I'm not a neopagan, mind you, but...

Re: I'm not a neopagan, mind you, but...

Re: I'm not a neopagan, mind you, but...

Re: I'm not a neopagan, mind you, but...

Re: I'm not a neopagan, mind you, but...